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Post by Skye on Sept 9, 2014 6:59:07 GMT 1
So I know it's a little early to start thinking about it, but we all know it will happen eventually - what are we going to do about Recognition? How are we going to handle it? Some elves manage to avoid Recognition, some simply aren't 'elligible' until they're a certain age. There are certain elf tribes and groups that have to go find their soul names. Yeah, so, it's a bit complicated.
Long story short: how are we going to choose who and who, etc.? Especially with the possibility of random elves showing up at all times of day or night that have never seen each other, ever. "Soul meets soul when eyes meet eyes" can be interesting when crossing space and time to meet people you never thought you'd meet.
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Post by Panaetha on Sept 9, 2014 7:39:00 GMT 1
That's a great question. What are soul names and Recognition like on these other versions of Abode, other planets, etc.? In terms of my characters, Recognition works like it does in Elfquest. Though I admit that my opinions on how it works can be quite strong, as anyone should see if you follow me on the Facebook Elfquest group or on the Scroll. *laughs* But the basics are there. I also have strong opinions on how Recognition is played out in these kinds of games...I've found that many players have a main goal of finding their character a mate, and once that happens, they kind of...drop them. Or they see Recognition like soulmates and true love and rainbows and sunshine, and that is just boring. So I get a little paranoid when Recognition talk comes up, because...I dunno, it seems like the ~*~ultimate goal~*~ for some, and I don't want people to Recognize and then disappear.
I have plans for Panaetha. Greywing will be up for Recognizing anyone, though she is still finding her voice in my mind...I don't know her sexual orientation, I don't know if she'd be up for lifemating a Recognized mate, I don't know how she feels about sharing, I don't know how she feels about motherhood...which makes things very interesting. *chuckles* She's also the youngest of all our characters by far, though certainly some characters may have different conventions about when an elf reaches sexual maturity.
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Post by Skye on Sept 9, 2014 8:12:53 GMT 1
I totally understand. Reefshadow's had lovemates aplenty, though none he'd like to lifemate. Sunset has never even had a lovemate, though I don't know if that's due to age or if she just hasn't discovered it yet. I've had elves enjoy Recognition before, but one of my current characters over at Survivors of a Lost Holt, Cloudbird, is in the midst of attempting to deny Recognition - she's Recognized someone from the tribe attempting to send her and her tribe back out, with injured elves and children and she can't fathom why she should have Recognized someone who could abide by such a cruel decision.
I don't want people to disappear either. >.< I just wanna get this out there.
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Post by Jaseio on Sept 9, 2014 12:03:17 GMT 1
So Jaseio had one lifemate back in her tribe, and when she were younger she wished for it, but it didn't happen to her, but to her mate, and that complicated things but it ended well enough.. I don't think she would be able to handle a Recognition in this place, she would probably have a very, very hard time accepting it xD She herself doesn't mind sharing, and I don't even know if she would stay with the one she Recognised, if she Recognises.
To me Recognition is more a way of making progress in the story of your character, to "evolve" the character, to delve deeper into, and explore their person. : D
It would just be sad, if people disappeared after it D: I could never come to understand how someone could leave after something like that D:
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Post by Sofia on Sept 9, 2014 12:30:00 GMT 1
Just popping in to say I have some comments to make on this subject and that this has been discussed here in the Holt before (it was decided that Recognition be decided by random draw, but that you as player can ask to have your elf/elves left out of the draw).
I'll link to the old discussion & make ny own comments with my views on Recognition later today.
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Post by Choice on Sept 9, 2014 20:36:58 GMT 1
Here's the link to the old discussion about Recognition. And I agree that we shouldn't play Recognition as an 'instant lifemates just add soul names' sort of situation. Elves who Recognize each other of course get a special bond (seeing someone as they truly are will do that to you, no matter if the other elf has a soul name or not) and will be extremely attracted to each other until Recognition has been fulfilled. But after that, only the soul-bond remains and it might not lead to further love or even like, so to speak. The tribes cultures about Recognition can of course vary greatly! In some tribes it might be expected for Recognition to lead to lifemating, 99% percent of the time, while it in others that might not at all be the case. Some elf tribes might even have 'stopped with' Recogition (think the Go-Backs in canon). What do people think we should have be the rules for Go-Back-like elves and Recognition? Can elves from tribes that still mainly reproduce by Recognition (let's call them Re-elves) Recognize a 'Go-Back'? And if so, what happens? Do they both get the 'see your inner soul' part, or is that only one-sided? Like only the Re-elf being in need to fulfill the Recognition, while the Go-Back just feels a little more attracted to the Re-elf. Would that even work? Also, are people interested in there being a Recognition soon-ish? Just asking since the topic was brought up. Oh, and I'm going to start up a Recognition list here, where you can opt in or out of the Recognition draw, so please message me 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 20:59:07 GMT 1
Here's the link to the old discussion about Recognition. And I agree that we shouldn't play Recognition as an 'instant lifemates just add soul names' sort of situation. Elves who Recognize each other of course get a special bond (seeing someone as they truly are will do that to you, no matter if the other elf has a soul name or not) and will be extremely attracted to each other until Recognition has been fulfilled. But after that, only the soul-bond remains and it might not lead to further love or even like, so to speak. The tribes cultures about Recognition can of course vary greatly! In some tribes it might be expected for Recognition to lead to lifemating, 99% percent of the time, while it in others that might not at all be the case. Some elf tribes might even have 'stopped with' Recogition (think the Go-Backs in canon). What do people think we should have be the rules for Go-Back-like elves and Recognition? Can elves from tribes that still mainly reproduce by Recognition (let's call them Re-elves) Recognize a 'Go-Back'? And if so, what happens? Do they both get the 'see your inner soul' part, or is that only one-sided? Like only the Re-elf being in need to fulfill the Recognition, while the Go-Back just feels a little more attracted to the Re-elf. Would that even work? Also, are people interested in there being a Recognition soon-ish? Just asking since the topic was brought up. Oh, and I'm going to start up a Recognition list here, where you can opt in or out of the Recognition draw, so please message me I agree with all points. Actually I think the whole 'lifemating after recognition' thing is more cultural and personal choice mixed in. I mean look at Tydlak and Dewshine. Recognition without lifemating 'cause they were so very different in culture and personality. Soul-bonded, yes, but not life-bonded. My elves would go either way, dependant on the soul-mate and or the recognition partner. Well Slinker is from a goback/wolfrider blended tribe and they do reproduce with recognition as most are wolfblooded. The goback thing is more cultural than genetic. They're exceedingly practical, but also live in the Way of the Wolf, in the now rather than worrying about little things. So Slinker would recognise, pure logical really. I think the stronger the wolf-blood the more likely they'll recognise to reproduce. The less likely for a goback than the genetics has to compensate for the low population, so they reproduce without it, or they'd naturally die out. Face it. Gobacks as a tribe don't live that long, or atleast Kavi's didn't, their lives were too short and violent, even if they were full of joy too. Thus Skywise's comment that the gobacks were the living embodiment of the Way. That they lived in the Now, never worrying too much about the future. I honestly don't mind having a recognition soon. It would make perfect sense, since new elves, new chance to make new bloodlines. It would make the situation, currently worse however. Since the elves can barely feed themselves. They're gonna struggle to care for a member of the tribe that's pregnant and bringing another mouth to feed into the mix in two turns of the seasons. Plus the absence of a midwife will complicate things. We have Pan, nods, but how many of the other elves will know what to do in a situation like that? Tinder would since she's the sister of a healer. She's been through this stuff helping others birth from bond to elf for three hundred years. The others, I don't know. |
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Post by Sofia on Sept 9, 2014 22:41:51 GMT 1
More people are of course welcome to weigh in on this! And adding a 'this is how Recognition is seen in this tribe' to your elf's old tribe's info somwhere (under Culture I think would fit nicely) would be very helpful to all players! And a good reminder to yourselves. A midwife or two would come in handy now. We could always put that on our tribe's OOC list of 'things we need in the future' to let potential new members know of the need for that And we have one vote for Recognition soon. I might set up a poll for this tomorrow, so we can have a clear vote on this. |
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Post by Panaetha on Sept 9, 2014 23:32:12 GMT 1
I was participating in a debate on the EQ Facebook last night about Recognition, so my trusty Gatherum is still within arm's reach.  So, at least in the canon universe, Go-Backs CAN Recognize. They just don't. Recognition is about bringing elves with awesome genetics together to make elf babies with awesomer genetics. Frankly, the Go-Backs need elves who can fight and hold swords; they don't need genetically superior warriors. And the gene pool isn't all that superior anyway, which is why I figure Recognition was like, "uh...yeah, we're gonna go focus on Wolfriders, y'all go ahead and make babies the regular way." So Go-Backs don't have much to offer each other in terms of genes. But more humble genetics could be an asset to another tribe...like a Glider in stagnation, or a power-hungry Sun Folk dude. With that in mind, I would treat Recognition in the Go-Backs like Recognition with Sun Folk. Everything would be the same for all, same pull, same sickness, same thing seeing their "soul," just no soul name. And then there's the soul sibling thing. Cutter and Skywise seem pretty unique in that regard, but I like the idea of it being more common. I studied Evolutionary Psychology for a time, and it just made sense, that the same force behind Recognition could bring together two elves who would have a lot to offer each other in terms of support in child rearing, and maybe unique perspectives to offer their children. An additional parent without an additional mate. For my elves, Pana's out of the drawing pool. Perhaps not permanently, but for now, yeah. Greywing's version of wolfriders are still in the early stages...Recognition is rampant because they need the numbers, and while it can lead to lifemating, it's just as likely that two elves will meet, answer the call, and part. They live in nomadic groups, so they'd have to leave behind family members and such. Her decision would depend on who she Recognizes...but she would likely feel pressure to mate, bear the cub, and find another to Recognize. Oh, forgot about midwives. The lack of a midwife doesn't concern me. They bore cubs just fine without them before...they can probably manage just fine now. |
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Post by Skye on Sept 10, 2014 3:23:00 GMT 1
Sorry for missing the original thread! We've got so much going on I must've overlooked it. I'm all for having a Recognition soonish. I think it would be interesting to watch how these elves from such drastically different places and cultures respond to it. As far as soul-sibs go, I think it prudent to add that Rayek and Winnowill were also soul-sibs, at least as far as I was able to tell from the comics (what with referring to each other in such a way). I think it has to do with what Pana mentioned, about Recognition being "these two will make good babies" and soul sibs being "these two will raise those good babies". Question, though: what about the elves that require a healer's help to have children outside of Recognition? There have been multiple instances down the timeline where the same lifemated couple Recognized more than once, and that's the only time it resulted in children. Alsooooo, what about 'lifebearers' like Rainsong, who seem to be able to have multiple children without trying very hard? |
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Post by Panaetha on Sept 10, 2014 4:12:24 GMT 1
Question, though: what about the elves that require a healer's help to have children outside of Recognition? What about them? *chuckles* In terms of canon, or this game? Need a more specific question. There have been multiple instances down the timeline where the same lifemated couple Recognized more than once, and that's the only time it resulted in children. Alsooooo, what about 'lifebearers' like Rainsong, who seem to be able to have multiple children without trying very hard? Woodlock and Rainsong provided children who would fulfill the needs of the tribe, as do Moonshade and Strongbow's. I think with Rainsong, raising children was just the best way she could aid the tribe, so Recognition granted her lots of kids. I think, personally, that Wolfriders can breed without Recognition, just that it's actually rarer than Recognition itself. If you look back in Elfquest history, many elves were born outside of it. I know that the canon-status of the Blood of Ten Chiefs novels/comics is a bit wibbly-wobbly, but that's all we really have to go off of. In terms of the game...I don't know how viable it would be for us to have a character who Recognizes multiple times, just because of the nature of the game. If this game lasts for years and years, it's a possibility, but no one wants to feel like their character's "turn" at Recognition is being skipped, regardless of how...realistic it is. |
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Post by Skye on Sept 10, 2014 5:05:47 GMT 1
Question, though: what about the elves that require a healer's help to have children outside of Recognition? What about them? *chuckles* In terms of canon, or this game? Need a more specific question. Heh, sorry. Do we want it to be possible? Eventually, never, etc.? Should it only be possible for lifemates who have exchanged soulnames, or what? |
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Post by Panaetha on Sept 10, 2014 5:14:43 GMT 1
I'm an advocate for it. I don't see why not. I mean, it should obviously not be something done right and left...and I don't think a soul name exchange is necessary. But I'm all for it as a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 12:57:56 GMT 1
That's an interesting point. I do agree to a certain degree, but realistically we'd need more than just Pan to ensure a healthy and safe birth. Our elves are living in the equivalent of the dark ages. They're not ignorant, but since Pan is our only mobile hospital, if anything does go very wrong, than it's likely only she could save mother and child. Saying that, worst case scenario both would perish. Depends on the situation of course, but say the elfess dropping her babe during a human attack on the holt or an outbreak of illness is going to cause severe problems too. So elves that have been through the process of recognition, having had cubs already of their own, or having experience in assisting in such situations will always be a bonus for the tribe.
Additionally I do agree on the soul-name exchange thing. I always did find it odd that the wolfriders, who not sharing that soulname commonly, always only with a trusted few, now automatically have that soul-name divulged to a complete stranger during recognition. It seems redundant and dangerous too. I mean Leetah didn't have a soulname like Cutter. She was only Leetah and no more. Perhaps I think an elf could withold a soulname during recognition and only release it willingly. I honestly don't know. It does raise interesting questions, since Winnowill was able to learn Dewshine's by force. Could the same be done during recognition if one party is desperate enough?
It also does make me wonder if an elf could willingly mask their soulname during the recognition as a pure defense mechanism. So they share perhaps a false name instead of their soulname to protect the more private one from being known. I mean the whole 'I know your soulname' thing could be done at a later date between elves that trusted each other, since I do agree that recognised partners wouldn't neccessarily raise the child together.
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Post by Jaseio on Sept 10, 2014 13:54:54 GMT 1
Well, Jaseio might be able to help at a birth. She isn't a midwife, not at all, at least not for elves... She has helped a lot of horses, and she assisted her lovemate, Naskur, in birthing Táta, together with a midwife. But that is the only experience she has had with it. And I'm also up for a Recognition soonish too  |
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