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Post by Skye on Nov 2, 2014 21:25:34 GMT 1
This character has to have permission. Has to. As far as time goes, I can see some of the really bad cases taking her a little longer, but probably not years.
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Post by Sofia on Nov 3, 2014 19:01:22 GMT 1
Good points from all. I admit years is a bit much time, I think I was a little too fixated on Winnowill's healing (that is a tangle that's going to take years to fix). Could someone less tired than me give an example of how they think Mind-Healing works? What I think it does is have "two parts": shielding (i.e. protecting from Black-Sending and Mind-Snares) and healing (i.e. treating depression/PTSD/stress/amnesia/etc.) Also, I honestly don't remember where in canon Leetah takes Suntop's nightmares away. Is it early on, when Savah is captured by Winnowill or recent? Because while yes, healing someone when they're asleep is tricky with the consent, I'd still argue that more complex mind-healing requiers consent - or maybe canon elves (minus Winnowill & her ilk) just respect consent that much that they'd never do anything against an elf's will, even heal. I'm thinking of the scene with Leetah and Cutter calling a 'healing circle' somewhere between Kings of the Broken Wheel and Shards. Leetah tried to heal Strongbow of the terrible feelings that had been haunting him since he shot Kureel, but it failed, because Strongbow couldn't open up to the healing - at least that's what I interpreted the scene as. As for consent in general: I think that even if there is canon evidence that Mind-Healing can be done without the patient's consent we should probably avoid that sort of power level for player characters. Not because it's not canon, but because Leetah and Winnowill are both scarily powerful healers, more "excellent" level than merely "strong", and that much power can take the fun out of the rpg  |
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Post by Panaetha on Nov 4, 2014 2:47:29 GMT 1
I can't tell you where the Suntop thing is exactly, but it's during the Cry From Beyond arc.
I think that the healing part, especially like in the healing circle around KotBW, is less HEALING and more lighting the way. "Here are the steps you need to take to let this go. Here's the incinerator to throw these feelings in. But you have to do the work." So, in that light, not necessarily that the healing process takes a long time, but that the person has to be willing to let it go. Perhaps the strength of the healer comes in based on how long they can keep the path lit; they should simply make the process easier, as evidenced by Strongbow's ability to let go of Kureel without Leetah.
This will be hard to describe in text, but imagine that you're in a room, looking over a maze, and it's pitch black. You have to solve it, but you have no idea how long it is, where the start is, where the end is. A healer can come in and show you the way, but once they're gone, you're in the darkness again. But you have a map, in your memory...so even though they're gone, you might have an easier time getting through. The length and complexity of the maze depends on the problems, issues, feelings...how fast it takes the person to get through it depends on how long the healer can keep the light on.
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Post by Sofia on Nov 4, 2014 7:43:46 GMT 1
I really like the "lighting the way in a dark maze" likeness! I'lll add that to the magic description a-sap |
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Post by Jaseio on Nov 4, 2014 12:43:00 GMT 1
How the mind-healing has been described it quite reminds me of hypnosis therapy. The hypnotist can, only with consent and with a willing person, put the "patient" in a trance, and can help lead the way to solving mental problems, it can even sometimes help with things like asthma, and psoriasis. But ONLY if the patient is willing, and if the patient is capable of facing whatever the problem is. Sometimes it doesn't help right away, but as you said Panaetha, the "map" is still there, but sometimes it takes more than once or twice to get to the bottom of it.
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Post by Sofia on Nov 5, 2014 8:26:02 GMT 1
Hypnosis therapy is a good likeness, thank you for that Seems like we're approaching a consensus on what Mind-Healing should be in our Holt. Do we have any limits we want to set on the magic when player characters are using it? Or is the current "hypno therapy" description limitation enough? Will edit the magic info for Mind-Healing as soon as I know we all agree on what it should be and will approve Stephanie's new character unless anyone has reason to protest. Even with the "parient must cooperate"-clause I get that some might still be doubtful, but I'd like to point out that a lot of magic can be used irresponsibly or against another elf without their consent - Fire-Shapers can burn other elves, Healers could decide to heal another against their will (both from serious wounds or simple scars that had sentimental value), Levitators and Gliders could lift and drop other elves from great heights, etc. Of course none of those things will happen here unless two or more players agree they want it to happen/be done by their elves - both victim and perpetrator's players must agree on such 'big' things happening to their elves, just like you can't decide on your own that your elf has lovemated with another player's elf. I hope that made sense. In short, I just want to remind everyone that just because a character has one kind of magic (or skill) they won't be using it against/for other elves willy nilly, since that would be no fun for anyone |
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Post by Jaseio on Nov 5, 2014 10:11:33 GMT 1
Well a really good hypnotist could probably put even an unwilling person in a trance, it would require work to make the person relax, and you wouldn't get much out of the hypnosis guidance, but it could be possible. Hypnosis therapy is actually very relaxing, but can also be straining on the mind. I have tried it a couple of times, and sometimes it left me feeling refreshed, other times I would be extremely sleepy afterwards. It would often depend on how stressed I was, or if I had felt like I had had a large burden on me. So I think Mind-healing should maybe cause a bit of the same after-effect? Just an idea I have also tried other things that has had the same effect, also afterwards: Mindfulness exercises, and cranial-sacral therapy. All three things puts the mind in a trance like state, a lot like meditation. It is just easier to obtain the trance-like state with hypnosis, and CST xD I'm blabbering again ^^ :b |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 11:48:28 GMT 1
Interesting, although I think this magic as already mention before has the potential to go over-board.
I think, realistically, the mind-healer couldn't just spontaeneously 'fix' something in an elf's head by healing them, even with permission given.
Therefore to me it makes more sense for the mind-healer to gain an elf's trust before consent is given. Also considering the sensitive nature of a mind-healer's access to an elf's mind, perhaps we should consider a safety net option. The mind-healer perhaps can only 'heal' another elf if consent is given, and if a third party is present during the healing, especially if something goes wrong.
Also I think the mind-healing wouldn't always work since for example I remember Leetah tried to heal Strongbow of his emotional suffering, but she was unable to, since he was unwilling to give up his guilt over killing that glider-elf Kureel, in what was effectively (to quote Tolkien) a Kinslaying of elf killing elf.
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Post by Skye on Nov 5, 2014 12:47:19 GMT 1
I definitely agree that the elf in question has to be willing to be healed. I simply think that the mind-healing makes normal processes - like grieving, which can take years to complete if they complete it at all - go quicker and smoother. In my view, that's what the physical healers do - instead of letting the broken bones mend slowly and potentially incorrectly, they pave the way to a cleaner, easier recovery that takes considerably less time.
Does that make sense, and is acceptable? She's not capable of healing anything that wouldn't be healed with time, on its own. So, stuff like PTSD, or if someone's mind has been attacked by someone like Winnowill, she could heal it, but naturally in-born things are definitely out of her range.
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Post by Sofia on Nov 5, 2014 13:33:00 GMT 1
To me, at least, that is a good limit (putting your character on the level of average when it comes to Mind-Healing I think, just to put her magic level in simple terms).
I for one would love for there to be a Mind-Healer in the Holt - Choice could use some therapy and let's not even get me started on Keleero XD
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 1:57:09 GMT 1
It's all good. Really, it's just that the way in which the mind-healing magic was to be used in the holt wasn't obvious. Thus the need for discussion. I think it's a good idea to have a mind-healer in the holt too. I wasn't too sure at first, because in other holts where we had mind-healers they didn't actually heal anyone's mind. I'm not sure if it was because of the lack of opportunity in the rpg or that the chara and their mind-healing magic i.e what they could do wasn't well defined.
Mind-healing like general healing is fairly broad in scope.
What we needed here to convince me was definition, a narrower scope, and an idea of how it would work logically. Which I now have, which also makes sense logically too. I'm OK with it. Saying that they actually could help Tinder with some of her insecurities too. Hadn't thought of that till now.
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Post by Greywing on Nov 6, 2014 6:45:41 GMT 1
As someone pursuing graduate studies in counseling, I just want to say we don't NEED a mind-healer for Choice and Tinder to deal with their various issues...but it could help. *chuckles* I'm fine with it.
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Post by Sofia on Nov 6, 2014 7:08:57 GMT 1
Greywing - yupp, therapy doesn't have to be magical for it to work, it'd just take more time. That said we currently don't have any qualified counslers among our elves and just talking things out with anyone isn't as effective as talking to a professional. Also, poor Keleero has millenia of trauma and torture to work out and some of that damage is magical in nature, which makes "magical therapy" a good option for him
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Jul 18, 2024 20:02:34 GMT 1
