Post by Sofia on Sept 10, 2014 15:05:27 GMT 1
So many interesting topics! I'll try to comment on everything bit by bit. Also, great to know that it's canon that Go-Backs can Recognize! That has solved a lot for me, personally XD
Soul names. I see soul names as a double-edged sword. They seem to be a thing made to protect an elf's inner self in a tribe where elves send and share thoughts with each other daily, but that this "shield" can be used against them if an enemy learns of it. I see the forced sharing of soul names during Recognition as a "mutually assured destruction" as well as a way to create a soul-bond, depending on how the couple react to and already feel about each other
Hiding and taking soul names. I don't think elves can hide their soul name during Recognition, if they have one. Why? Because Recognition is a sudden, automatic thing. There no chance for an elf to prepare and fight when it happens. Can other elves then steal another's soul name through sending? I think so, but it's very very difficult. I think that Deep Sensers (canon example: Suntoucher) that are powerful enough can find another's soul name, just like a powerful enough sender, but that it's such a difficult task to perform - especially against other adults who're average senders or more - that it's increadibly rare.
Dewshine & Winnowill. Winnowill heard Tyldak speak Dewshine's soul name out loud, that's how she learnt it. So that was not a case of outright "theft" but simply overhearing.
Who don't have soul names. This I could use some help untangling, since I think canon has been a bit unclear on this. In canon only wolf-blooded elves have soul names (alongside Suntop/stream, but he rejected his wolf-blood instead of being born of two pureblooded parents). Why? Unclear. At first I thought this was because the Wolfriders sent, while the Sun Folk had stopped doing that generations ago. Then we met the Gliders, Go-Backs and Wavedancers. The Go-Backs don't send, but the Gliders and Wavedancers do. So frequent sending = need for soul names doesn't seem to be the answer. It could of course be the animal-blood, it's the most logical conclusion (but I think that's a bit boring XD). My own personal theory is that elves adapt to the environment by generation - i.e. the Sun Folk stopped sending, so no need to develop soul names; the Wolfriders shared thoughts and needed to bring together both elf and wolf side so they needed soul names; the Go-Backs lost their wolf-blood and stopped sending so they lost the need of soul names after a few generations; the Gliders reproduced so slowly and had no animal-blood to kickstart the need for soul names so they never developed them despite sending; Wavedancers I don't know enough about to have an argument about. So that's my take on soul names - any thoughts?
Soul siblings. Winnowill and Rayek are soul siblings just as Skywise and Cutter are. It just wasn't as obvious when they "Recognized" since neither of them have a soul name. I like that elves of all genders can find a soul sibling just like that, without the need to reproduce.
To Recognize or not. I think what got Recognition started is that elves need to avoid in-breeding effects on their offspring. In canon there weren't that many High Ones, meaning their children would have to start making babies with their cousins pretty soon and for several generations. That could lead to severe trouble down the line. With animal-blooded elves they have the double-trouble of in-breeding and trying to integrate two very different sets of genetics into one living creature. Recognition guarantees a healthy child, making it a more secure, if slower way for elves to reproduce. Births outside of Recognition risks the death of both child and mother, which means that elves in the early days might have reproduced in and out of Recognition equally, but since more elves prone to Recognition survive and have offspring that becomes the dominant way of reproduction. The slow rate of Recognition fueled births is of course a downside. Recognition does seem "intelligent" in some ways, happening more often when the tribe's numbers are low and not happening when things are too "peaceful and stable". But Recognition is adapted to how long elves potentially can live, since if the immortal or at least long lived elves would reproduce as often or almost as often as us humans they would use up all the resources on where they live far too quickly. But while Go-Backs are immortal, they've had their genetics tampered with (by Willowgreen) and they tend to die very very young for pureblooded elves, due to violence, exposure, etc. Thus, the Go-Backs who've had a lot of offspring will most likely have had said offspring outside of Recognition, to replentish their swiftly dwindling numbers. Quantity over quality.
Recognized mates having more than one child. Recognition is a very slow thing that seems to happen only when new blood is introduced to an elf-group or when a tribe's numbers are low. Thus I think it makes sense that Recognized couples have more than one child, since they have compatible genetics, but that there is a great span of time between children, because children might not always be "needed".
Lifebearers. I like the theory that elves who have a lot of children (3 or more) are elves who aren't that closely related to the other elves in their tribe. That way, when their children in their turn Recognize, there is more variation introduced "back" into the genepool. That way, elves who are closely related to many elves they live with, might never Recognize because there's no viable combination.
Making children through healing. Healers shape bodies, so it's not so strange that they can get ovulation and such things going. And it doesn't seem to be that difficult since the healer Rain (known to not be that powerful) fathered Pike outside of Recognition through healing. I don't think soul names have anything to do with reproduction itself, so elves should be able to reproduce with each other aided by a healer as long as they're prepared to have sex. That said, I don't think making a child with the help of a healer always is successful, just like reproduction outside of Recognition can lead to miscarrige, stillborn elves, etc. I think that just like with human reproduction, healer-aided reproduction can need several attempts before it bears fruit.
Need for midwives. While I think there is a need for elves experienced with child care, especially newborns, for the child's survival, I don't think the mother will need one if the child is of Recognition. Elf mothers are described to feel no pain when giving birth and there's been no record in canon of death during childbirth. Births _outside_ of Recognition are of course different! Could be interesting to see a Go-Back midwife attend a Recognition birth
Soul names. I see soul names as a double-edged sword. They seem to be a thing made to protect an elf's inner self in a tribe where elves send and share thoughts with each other daily, but that this "shield" can be used against them if an enemy learns of it. I see the forced sharing of soul names during Recognition as a "mutually assured destruction" as well as a way to create a soul-bond, depending on how the couple react to and already feel about each other
Hiding and taking soul names. I don't think elves can hide their soul name during Recognition, if they have one. Why? Because Recognition is a sudden, automatic thing. There no chance for an elf to prepare and fight when it happens. Can other elves then steal another's soul name through sending? I think so, but it's very very difficult. I think that Deep Sensers (canon example: Suntoucher) that are powerful enough can find another's soul name, just like a powerful enough sender, but that it's such a difficult task to perform - especially against other adults who're average senders or more - that it's increadibly rare.
Dewshine & Winnowill. Winnowill heard Tyldak speak Dewshine's soul name out loud, that's how she learnt it. So that was not a case of outright "theft" but simply overhearing.
Who don't have soul names. This I could use some help untangling, since I think canon has been a bit unclear on this. In canon only wolf-blooded elves have soul names (alongside Suntop/stream, but he rejected his wolf-blood instead of being born of two pureblooded parents). Why? Unclear. At first I thought this was because the Wolfriders sent, while the Sun Folk had stopped doing that generations ago. Then we met the Gliders, Go-Backs and Wavedancers. The Go-Backs don't send, but the Gliders and Wavedancers do. So frequent sending = need for soul names doesn't seem to be the answer. It could of course be the animal-blood, it's the most logical conclusion (but I think that's a bit boring XD). My own personal theory is that elves adapt to the environment by generation - i.e. the Sun Folk stopped sending, so no need to develop soul names; the Wolfriders shared thoughts and needed to bring together both elf and wolf side so they needed soul names; the Go-Backs lost their wolf-blood and stopped sending so they lost the need of soul names after a few generations; the Gliders reproduced so slowly and had no animal-blood to kickstart the need for soul names so they never developed them despite sending; Wavedancers I don't know enough about to have an argument about. So that's my take on soul names - any thoughts?
Soul siblings. Winnowill and Rayek are soul siblings just as Skywise and Cutter are. It just wasn't as obvious when they "Recognized" since neither of them have a soul name. I like that elves of all genders can find a soul sibling just like that, without the need to reproduce.
To Recognize or not. I think what got Recognition started is that elves need to avoid in-breeding effects on their offspring. In canon there weren't that many High Ones, meaning their children would have to start making babies with their cousins pretty soon and for several generations. That could lead to severe trouble down the line. With animal-blooded elves they have the double-trouble of in-breeding and trying to integrate two very different sets of genetics into one living creature. Recognition guarantees a healthy child, making it a more secure, if slower way for elves to reproduce. Births outside of Recognition risks the death of both child and mother, which means that elves in the early days might have reproduced in and out of Recognition equally, but since more elves prone to Recognition survive and have offspring that becomes the dominant way of reproduction. The slow rate of Recognition fueled births is of course a downside. Recognition does seem "intelligent" in some ways, happening more often when the tribe's numbers are low and not happening when things are too "peaceful and stable". But Recognition is adapted to how long elves potentially can live, since if the immortal or at least long lived elves would reproduce as often or almost as often as us humans they would use up all the resources on where they live far too quickly. But while Go-Backs are immortal, they've had their genetics tampered with (by Willowgreen) and they tend to die very very young for pureblooded elves, due to violence, exposure, etc. Thus, the Go-Backs who've had a lot of offspring will most likely have had said offspring outside of Recognition, to replentish their swiftly dwindling numbers. Quantity over quality.
Recognized mates having more than one child. Recognition is a very slow thing that seems to happen only when new blood is introduced to an elf-group or when a tribe's numbers are low. Thus I think it makes sense that Recognized couples have more than one child, since they have compatible genetics, but that there is a great span of time between children, because children might not always be "needed".
Lifebearers. I like the theory that elves who have a lot of children (3 or more) are elves who aren't that closely related to the other elves in their tribe. That way, when their children in their turn Recognize, there is more variation introduced "back" into the genepool. That way, elves who are closely related to many elves they live with, might never Recognize because there's no viable combination.
Making children through healing. Healers shape bodies, so it's not so strange that they can get ovulation and such things going. And it doesn't seem to be that difficult since the healer Rain (known to not be that powerful) fathered Pike outside of Recognition through healing. I don't think soul names have anything to do with reproduction itself, so elves should be able to reproduce with each other aided by a healer as long as they're prepared to have sex. That said, I don't think making a child with the help of a healer always is successful, just like reproduction outside of Recognition can lead to miscarrige, stillborn elves, etc. I think that just like with human reproduction, healer-aided reproduction can need several attempts before it bears fruit.
Need for midwives. While I think there is a need for elves experienced with child care, especially newborns, for the child's survival, I don't think the mother will need one if the child is of Recognition. Elf mothers are described to feel no pain when giving birth and there's been no record in canon of death during childbirth. Births _outside_ of Recognition are of course different! Could be interesting to see a Go-Back midwife attend a Recognition birth